Re: Planting tomato plants deep: does it work?
I have about 20 tomato plants growing in paper cups. They are a little pale and leggy because they are too big for my grow lights and I haven't put them in the sun because it is so windy. I plan to take some and put them in large pots. I will bury them up to their necks and then strip of the bottom leaves and fill the pots with dirt until they reach the top. I have another flat of 72 Romas coming, so I have plenty to play with.
I know people who look for lengthier plants for this reason. It's their favorite way to plant tomatoes, say plants end up stronger, very productive.buzzcut wrote:I wasn't able to watch the local PBS "Garden Line" a couple of weeks ago (hosted by SDSU horticulturists). DVR'd it and watched it last night. one of the hosts showed what to do if your tomato plants happen to get a little "leggy" before you are able to plant them in the ground. she actually put the tomato plant in a horizontal position in the ground (maybe couple inches deep) and gently bent the area so to expose that part above ground. not sure if there would be any benefits to that, then say "burying" it straight into the ground and leaving top exposed.
just thot I'd pass that along.
I start all my tomatoes from seed, and plant them deep, but have not tried the curving stem method .
- applestar
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My understanding of the two methods -- deep straight down vs. shallow trench -- is that they both work on the same principle that tomatoes grow roots along the stem:
Deep "post hole" method is preferred for hot and/or dry areas so the roots can be kept cool and less tend to dry out where they can find deeper moisture
Shallow trench method is preferred for cool areas where earliest planting is desired since soil is warmer near the surface
-- Planting in deep holes can shock or delay the plants when the deeper soil is much colder to even freezing. They can also be drowned where rainfall is frequent or heavy, or subsoil is mostly clay and doesn't drain well.
-- Planting in shallow trenches can mean more frequent watering in dry spring and summer drought. Also the long shallowly buried stem can interfere with mechanical and tool-based weeding like tilling or hoeing. So heavily mulching is recommended.
Deep "post hole" method is preferred for hot and/or dry areas so the roots can be kept cool and less tend to dry out where they can find deeper moisture
Shallow trench method is preferred for cool areas where earliest planting is desired since soil is warmer near the surface
-- Planting in deep holes can shock or delay the plants when the deeper soil is much colder to even freezing. They can also be drowned where rainfall is frequent or heavy, or subsoil is mostly clay and doesn't drain well.
-- Planting in shallow trenches can mean more frequent watering in dry spring and summer drought. Also the long shallowly buried stem can interfere with mechanical and tool-based weeding like tilling or hoeing. So heavily mulching is recommended.
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- TheWaterbug
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If Johnny's still here, did you ever get results from that experiment?johnny123 wrote:The best I can tell you is we'll see this fall.
I have two Jetstars that have not been planted yet.
Both started from seed at the same time.
Both are the same hight.
I will plant one with the roots a few inches below the surface and I will plant the other one with the roots a foot deep.
I'll get bact to you this fall with the results.
I have the time and space next year (and if I remember) maybe I'll try one shallow transplant, one deep transplant, and one horizontal transplant and see what the differences are.
Of course it'll have to be a variety that I really like
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As a general rule, once tomato plants are positioned within the growing medium, they must have a minimum 12-inch depth beneath them for healthy root growth. Depending on the cultivar, tomato plants grow upward to approximately 3 feet; their deep root structures mirror their height so that they can support the weight above. Preferably, an 18-inch deep planter box should be used to hold a healthy tomato plant, depending on the variety. These heavy planters should be placed on a patio floor or sturdy table.
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- jal_ut
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Often tomato starts get quite leggy. I only clip leaves that are starting to look bad, then make a trench and lay the root ball in one end and the stem horizontal for whatever length doesn't have leaves on it. I don't like to get the root ball too deep as the ground is cooler the deeper you go. The stem that is planted will send out roots and the plant will then have a great root system. Whether you go horizontal or vertical, it is good to bury some of the stem above the root ball.
I like to have about 4-5 vines per plant. So in the smaller pots I pinch the leaves and let the suckers grow from where the bottom 2 sets of leaves were. After they get started good I put them in the larger containers they will stay in but only about half or 2/3 of the way filled with dirt. Later after the vines get taller I fill dirt to the top, burying the vines. I didn't do it that way with the first 2 plants last year, but with the 4 I planted later I did it that way and it made a huge! difference. The leaves were bigger and the fruit was bigger too, and the vines themselves were a whole lot thicker. It makes sense since doing it the first way all nutrients for the whole plant are restricted to going up the one stem, but the second way each vine becomes its own stem with its own root system. That makes more efficient use of the soil itself too, imo.garden5 wrote:I have heard of people stripping off all the leaves except for the top two on their plants and planting the plant all the way up to these top leaves. Supposedly, this gives a deeper, stronger, root system.
Has anyone ever tried this, what were your results? Did you get fruit sooner because the plant got more nutrients, or did you get fruit later because the plant had to make up so much growth?
This is something I might try this year. Thanks for any reports.
- McKinney88
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I have always planted my tomato plants deep and have grown large and tall tomato plants. Planting deep allows for the plant to grow larger, gather more nutrients, and has the strength to grow bigger tomatoes. I’ve never removed the leaves before hand, and honestly you don't need to. Make sure the soil you are using is soft and fluffy. I use an organic compost manure and add 6 inches of compost throughout my entire garden each year. This helps the plant to spread its roots out deeper.
I’ll post my method for growing a deep-rooted tomato plants and as a result, grew a 6-foot tall tomato plant with tons of large tomatoes.
I’ll post my method for growing a deep-rooted tomato plants and as a result, grew a 6-foot tall tomato plant with tons of large tomatoes.
I trench, placing the root ball at least 8" to 10" deep. Roots will continue to grow down as far as they want from there.
I pinch off all but the top 2 or 3 leaves and lay the plant into a sloping trench, with only the top few leaves I've left above the soil line. The plant will root all along the stem. This helps to drought proof the plant as well. Where appropriate - wouldn't do this in, say the pacific northwest where they are getting 66" of rain per year - I will set the plant into a depression in the soil and line the sides with rocks so that water stays where I put it. That depression follows the lay of the trench.
I mulch with cardboard and wood chips wherever there is not plant. I prefer to drip irrigate, though my garden has been so small the last couple of years that even decrepit old me can water by hand. Even in the desert. Mulching is a miracle.
I pinch off all but the top 2 or 3 leaves and lay the plant into a sloping trench, with only the top few leaves I've left above the soil line. The plant will root all along the stem. This helps to drought proof the plant as well. Where appropriate - wouldn't do this in, say the pacific northwest where they are getting 66" of rain per year - I will set the plant into a depression in the soil and line the sides with rocks so that water stays where I put it. That depression follows the lay of the trench.
I mulch with cardboard and wood chips wherever there is not plant. I prefer to drip irrigate, though my garden has been so small the last couple of years that even decrepit old me can water by hand. Even in the desert. Mulching is a miracle.
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quote: "I have heard of people stripping off all the leaves except for the top two on their plants and planting the plant all the way up to these top leaves. Supposedly, this gives a deeper, stronger, root system."
I find it best to not put the root system that deep. Dig a little trench and kinda lay the plant down in the trench. Now the roots are not deep, but some of the stem is underground where it can send out new roots. Yes, they will send out roots along that underground stem.
I find it best to not put the root system that deep. Dig a little trench and kinda lay the plant down in the trench. Now the roots are not deep, but some of the stem is underground where it can send out new roots. Yes, they will send out roots along that underground stem.
- Gary350
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Tomato plants have the ability to grow roots anywhere soil touches them. If you plant deep you get a plant with lots of roots plus it is deep where the moisture is. After transplanting the plants in the garden a week later you see plants start to grow faster and faster about 1" taller every day. I like to plant my tomatoes April 1st if possible and no larger than April 15. I like to take advantage of cool, wet spring weather I want my plants to be 6 feet tall by June 15 and producing tomatoes by July 4th. In hot weather all those roots will keep the plants alive in 100 degree weather when there is very little rain. A large root system is very good for a tomato variety that produces large tomatoes and large quantities of tomatoes. I want my plants to produce 200 lbs of tomatoes by July 15 before the heat and sun slows tomato production down to very few tomatoes. Cool weather late October plants that survive the summer heat will start producing tomatoes again. I often have tomatoes for Thanksgiving Dinner and maybe Christmas dinner.
I always take off the lower leaves and plant as much of the stem as possible. I leave only the top set of leaves. The plants do grow adventicious roots and if I leave more stem, I just get a taller plant. Except for tumbling Tom which is a basket tomato, the tomatoes I grow are caged and usually 7-8 ft by the time they are in full production. I grow them in 18 gallon containers and the roots will still go out of the pots and into the ground. Tomatoes need a lot of root space as well as headroom.
What I find is that most beginners choose a pot that is too small and don't plan on a support system at the start. The support system should be in place when the tomato is planted so it is strong enough and does not damage the root system when it is being installed.
The other thing that beginners often don't realize that plants are living things that need air, light, water, food in the right quantities and that all things have a life span. They don't live forever.
What I find is that most beginners choose a pot that is too small and don't plan on a support system at the start. The support system should be in place when the tomato is planted so it is strong enough and does not damage the root system when it is being installed.
The other thing that beginners often don't realize that plants are living things that need air, light, water, food in the right quantities and that all things have a life span. They don't live forever.
- jal_ut
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Gary350, growing in Tn is likely to be a lot different than here in Northern Utah at 5000 ft elevation. With a little luck we get June, July and August frost free. Though one year I got frozen out on July 5.
Here is a good read: https://soilandhealth.org/wp-content/upl ... 7ch26.html
Here is a good read: https://soilandhealth.org/wp-content/upl ... 7ch26.html
I've had such horrible luck with tomatoes the past few years I've decided to not grow them in my backyard garden this year. I did have a very large plant in a huge pot on my front porch that died this past winter when it got down to the low 20's a few nights in a row and I finally got that root ball out of the pot and decided to put just one cherry tomato plant in it surrounded by a few low growing flowering plants. That will be the extent of my tomato crop this year I do believe, unless I decide to put more of them in large pots.
The first several years of growing my garden found me with beautiful tomatoes each spring/summer and again in the fall before the real cold weather killed the plants off. However the past few years have seen the plants succumb to various diseases, fungal issues and an influx in pests that destroy the fruit before it ripens. I've planted my tomatoes in various locations over the years and by now there isn't a place in my garden where I can rotate them too that hasn't seen them planted there before.
But the good thing is, when tomatoes are getting ripe in my garden, the local tomato crop is too and the price of them drops considerably, making them almost not worth growing with the issues I've dealt with.
The first several years of growing my garden found me with beautiful tomatoes each spring/summer and again in the fall before the real cold weather killed the plants off. However the past few years have seen the plants succumb to various diseases, fungal issues and an influx in pests that destroy the fruit before it ripens. I've planted my tomatoes in various locations over the years and by now there isn't a place in my garden where I can rotate them too that hasn't seen them planted there before.
But the good thing is, when tomatoes are getting ripe in my garden, the local tomato crop is too and the price of them drops considerably, making them almost not worth growing with the issues I've dealt with.
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I'm very interested in this question (benefit - or not - of deep planting for tomatoes) and especially TZ's comments. Over many years I've tried lots of variations on the theme of raising and setting out transplants for best root development. I won't go into details here, but I was just today reflecting that when I first grew tomatoes and hadn't yet "learned how it should be done" I do believe my results were quite as good as after I began following many of the techniques I read about - but with much less bother/effort. This year I'll be going back to my older, simpler way of doing things.
The BIG things I've learned to be fussy about are 1) Keep the deer out of the garden and 2) Protect the plants from rain late in the season. When I didn't know I should "spank" or shake the blossoming plants my results were not noticeably poorer than after I began to do that. To me it's often difficult to distinguish gardening fact from dubious "common knowledge" and rational speculation.
The BIG things I've learned to be fussy about are 1) Keep the deer out of the garden and 2) Protect the plants from rain late in the season. When I didn't know I should "spank" or shake the blossoming plants my results were not noticeably poorer than after I began to do that. To me it's often difficult to distinguish gardening fact from dubious "common knowledge" and rational speculation.
- applestar
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Is it this post you are talking about?
TZ was the resident tomato expert around the time I first joined this forum. In fact he was the one that got me started growing my first selection of huge varieties, along with a couple of other members, too, and set me along this path of craziness
He hasn’t been here in a long time and I miss him. His archived advice are worth paying attention to.
TZ was the resident tomato expert around the time I first joined this forum. In fact he was the one that got me started growing my first selection of huge varieties, along with a couple of other members, too, and set me along this path of craziness
He hasn’t been here in a long time and I miss him. His archived advice are worth paying attention to.
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Hmmm - applestar, is it me you're talking to ?applestar wrote:Is it this post you are talking about?
Really I was/am very interested in just about everything TZ and most others had to say on this thread; but specially the comments about various tomato raising & planting techniques. Thanks to you all.
By the way I apologise for my irrelevant (to the topic) statements about protection from deer and rain. Sometimes can't resist flippant interjections intended as humour. It's too late to edit them out, but mods please feel free.
But off-topic again: I LOVE this forum.
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No, it was No.3 in this thread where TZ_OH6, relates his experience & rationale for tomato transplanting, when to bury stems deep and when shallower:applestar wrote:Is it this post you are talking about?
This makes sense of my own observation that burying a lot of stem makes little difference if transplants are already sturdy with well developed roots.I never see a significant amount of roots growing out above the original rootball for plants that had loose root balls going into the garden.