Tomato plant crying for help

[Finlike1143]

Hi,

I planted my first garden this year with a couple of tomato plants, two different varieties. They were both doing very well until yesterday, when I noticed that one of them had its bottom-third leaves curling upward.

I researched a bit and thought I'd rule out underwatering, so watered it deeply last night. Unfortunately, it's looking worse today. It's bottom-third leaves are still curled upward, and now I've noticed that the edges of the top-two-third leaves are curled very tightly downward and some of them are starting to split. (This might have been the case yesterday and I simply didn't notice it.) It's also looking more wilted in general and the leaves are showing some yellow near the main vein. I've attached some photos.

I've been giving it a nitrogen-rich fertilizer every week so I doubt that's the problem. It's clearly not an underwatering issue. Could it be overwatered? What's else? I read about yellow leaf curl virus, but I'm not sure if that's a possibility where I live in Montreal, Canada.

Meanwhile, the other tomato plant is still very happy. I've been treating both the same way. Could anyone shed some light on what I may be doing wrong and what I can do to turn this situation around? Thanks so much.

[applestar]

Welcome to the forum! Gardening is a series of learning experiences, and it can be frustrating when things go wrong, but everyone has to start somewhere. We all did.

I've been giving it a nitrogen-rich fertilizer every week

… I think THIS is actually the problem. Tomatoes shouldn’t get high nitrogen fertilizers especially after they’ve started to bloom.

Curling up can be response to high temps but curling down, especially the way they look in your pic is classic too much N — maybe brought on by the extra watering dissolving/releasing more soluble nutrients.

Over-fertilizing (especially N) can actually invite pest invasion. Check for pests. Also check the lowest leaves for sign of fungal disease.

Stop fertilizing for a couple of weeks, let us know if you see any changes. Your plants may exhibit signs of deficiency or imbalance in other nutrients since you have been favoring Nitrogen overall.

(I feel like yellowing along central leaf vein should mean something, but can’t remember what atm — look under the leaves along those ribs maybe… could be a whole mess of sucking pests….)

[Finlike1143]

Hi applestar, thanks for your advice and encouraging words.

I checked the underside of the leaves and don't see a significant number of creepy crawlies. Maybe an orange dot here and there that could be a mite, but nothing that I think is alarming. What should I be looking for?

The bottom leaves that are curled upwards are getting stiff and crack easily, especially at the edges. A few leaf edges are turning brown. Some of the top, yellowing leaves are starting to show cracks within them as well:

I'm a little surprised at the idea that I could be giving the plant too much nitrogen because I'm only spraying its leaves with this 1-0.5-0.3 organic fertilizer every week: https://hydrodionne.com/products/bionik ... -1-0-5-0-3. Do you really think that could be too much? I also found this YouTube video where someone had similar yellowing on his leaves (but no downward curl or lower upward curling leaves) and says it's a lack of nitrogen:




His solution to fertilize seems to have worked after 2 weeks in the follow-up video.

I have to admit that I'm a bit overwhelmed by all of the (sometimes conflicting) information online. The web, particularly YouTube, has been a great resource so far, but now that I have this issue, it's hard to find a definite cause and solution. I really don't want to lose my plant if I can help it.

Are you still of the opinion that I should stop fertilizing it? Or maybe I should switch to a different fertilizer, like a 2-4-2 or 2-6-4 that I've been eyeing?

[applestar]

Maybe it’s more about balance. Does this liquid fertilizer also contain micro nutrients? What are you using to supply those? Calcium, Magnesium, Sulfer, Manganese, Iron, Boron, Silica, etc etc

[Finlike1143]

I haven't given it anything other than that fertilizer, which only lists NPK percentages. It says that it's "packed with insect frass, chitin, carbohydrates and seaweed", so I assume it's getting some of those micronutrients, but can't be certain.

That said, what I'm doing now clearly isn't working for this plant so it's time to try something new, whether it's watering more/less, giving fertilizer a pause, trying a different one, or something else.

These are the other fertilizers I was considering buying, particularly the first one:

Neptune's Harvest Rose & Flowering (2-6-4): https://greenearthagandturf.com/product ... mula-2-6-4
Neptune's Harvest Tomato & Veg (2-4-2): https://greenearthagandturf.com/product ... eg-formula

I've also stumbled on another possible cause, which could be root rot. My soil was very heavy with clay so I amended it with a compost designed to improve drainage before planting (which I now see lists 1% calcium): https://lesessentiels.ca/en/product/biofor-compost. Maybe it wasn't enough? If it is root rot, I'm not sure what I can do about it...

[applestar]

I like Neptune’s Harvest. I used to use their hydrolized fish and kelp.

Didn’t realize they’ve branched out to label for specific target plants…. but even organic, I would stick with products labeled for food crops when using on food crops if they want to differentiate.

My usual go-to for the micronutes are dolomitic lime and kelp meal. I used to use Green Sand, but that seems to have become source-questionable. Granite dust and Azomite I consider are regionally/locally sourced alternatives (not applicable to my area — personal preference).

I also like to experiment with homebrewed compost and vermicompost teas, bokashi fertilizers, and probiotic brewed liquid mixes including at simplest, banana peels and fruit scraps, eggshells, brewed vinegar, plus yeast, natto powder, yogurt, raw and brown sugar, molasses, etc.

Other salt type stuff I use are epsom salts (Magnesium sulfate), Potassium bicarbonate, Calcium nitrate, Borax, liquid soap, etc.

To be honest, my plants don’t look anything like yours. My emphasis is on feeding the soil first and spraying preventatively against fungal issues 2nd (and in the process, increase plant resistance to disease and foliar feed at the same time). My plants might look underfed in comparison.

So I do hope other members who look at your photos and see normal or near normal to pitch in with their experiences.

I don’t want to steer you wrong. As you said, there are conflicting infos on the net, but part of the reason for that is there really isn’t just one right way — partly because all kinds of local and individual factors change what works and what doesn’t.

If anything, my advice is to NOT rely too heavily on people who tell you or imply that theirs is the only right way.

…about what to do…

You are being a detective right now, and it will help to “eliminate suspects” so skipping one week to see what might change feels to me like a good way?

[applestar]

BTW don’t be complacent about possible mite infestation — has it been hot and dry there?

Post close up photos of underside of leaves if you can. Don’t be afraid of cutting off a suspect leaflet or entire leaf at this point.

Lowest leaves if they are structurally unsound and prone to cracking can become target for fungal issues if wet and humid/hot muggy. So they can be removed.

Tomato leaf pruning is done bottom up and leaves to just below bottom-most fruit truss especially once they start changing color are no longer serving purpose and are expendable. You want more airflow.

!!! I’ve been remiss in forgetting to ask you what varieties of tomatoes you are growing. If more than one, any differences?

[imafan26]

Yellowing along the central stem, could be a sign of residual herbicide damage. Was herbicide sprayed nearby, or did you buy compost and add it to the bed?

There can be residual herbicides in compost, especially green waste compost because you don't know what people throw in their bins. If you make your own compost, you should know what went in it. You can also get herbicide contamination from straw or manures if animals grazed on grass that was treated with a persistent herbicide.

https://www.essentialstuff.org/2011/07/ ... eat-straw/

Leaves curling upward or rolling could be a physiological response to heat stress.

Overwatering is a possibility and tomatoes are heavy nitrogen feeders, but nitrogen should be given at specific growth times and the total nitrogen requirement should be divided over the life of the plant. Basically, I do a first side dressing when the plants have true leaves or are transplanted. Second when the fruits first flower.

If the plants live longer than 50 days they get 1/4 of the total nitrogen e\very 30 days for maintenance. This is for synthetic nitrogen ( I use sulfate of ammonia side dressing 2 tablespoon per 100 sq ft.) I don't plant in rows so I broad cast it and throw some compost on top of it and water it in immediately.

If you do organic, Slow N will be available over a period of up to two years. You will need to do weekly fast nitrogen as a water soluble, fish emulsion, manure tea, or blood meal starting a week after seeds germinate weekly while the tomatoes are actively growing. Stop when growth stops, to promote flowering or you will have a lot of leaves and not many tomatoes. How fast the nitrogen becomes available is dependent on temperature, the form of nitrogen, and the health of your soil web. It will always lag behind conventional fertilizer, so it needs to be applied earlier than the plants need it. It is harder to time when to apply. The plants need nutrients available when they need it or they will be stunted and stunted plants will always decrease yields.

If you have a new organic garden and it was put together and tilled right before you planted and you did not add organic fertilizer at least 4 months in advance, don't expect much without weekly side dressing. Even with side dressing, your soil web needs time to build. An organic garden with annual organic inputs takes about two years to be comparable to a conventional garden. Except that organic garden probably will not yield as well if it is intensively planted with high nutrient requiring plants.

The other thing with organic products. Some of them give you a list of ingredients but not all of them will give you a full analysis and the organic analysis will vary from batch to batch. If an organic product says it has 1% nitrogen, probably only half of it is in an available form. Plants don't care what the source of the nitrogen is, neither do the soil microbes. It just has to be in a form they can use.

https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/what_orga ... s_and_soil

[Finlike1143]

Wow, thanks to both of you for all that info and those good questions. Being a beginner, I have to admit that some of it has gone over my head.

For Neptune's Harvest, I was leaning towards their Rose & Flowering (2-6-4) fertilizer rather than their Tomato & Veg (2-4-2) one because that's what they recommend after the plant has started flowering:

Our Rose and Flowering will produce the flowers. Tomato and Veg will produce more leaves. Most flowering plants like the TV for the 1st few weeks, then RF for the rest of the season. For vegetables and berries, the idea is to get the plant big and full of leaves, then encourage the flowers/buds, which become vegetables or fruit. Same idea for flowers. It’s a 2 part program. First TV then, when flowering begins, switch to the RF.
https://www.neptunesharvest.com/faq.html

I agree that stopping the fertilizer for a bit could be a good idea, however now I'm wondering if I've even been fertilizing it correctly. As I said, I was foliar feeding the plant with that organic fertilizer (1-0.5-0.3), but I've been spraying the top of the leaves, not the underside. I'm reading now that I should have sprayed the underside of the leaves instead? Could the fertilizer have been ineffective because of this, and we're looking at a deficiency of some kind?

I think we can rule out herbicide because I've only used the organic compost and organic fertilizer I've linked. I forgot to mention, when I planted the tomato plants, I put a handful of bone meal at the bottom of the holes. Then I just sprayed the top of the leaves with organic fertilizer every week. I think we can classify the garden as a new organic one.

Here are photos of the underside of some leaves. First the top that are curling downwards. The brown dots in the second photo are just spots and there aren't many leaves like that:

Then the bottom leaves that are curling upwards. You can see a couple of the orange-yellow "mites" I mentioned. Most bottom leaves don't have any:

I planted two tomato plants in the garden. The one with the problem is an indeterminate Sweet Chelsea. I'm growing it along a suspended string and pruning the suckers to keep it under control and have fruit growing along the main stem. So far it's 4.5' high and there aren't many flowers, only 3 sets:

The second is a determinate Roma, which seems to be incredibly happy. I've only pruned to ease aeration and there must be over 70 flowers now. It's about 4' high:

Both plants are producing a ton of leaves so that could be the nitrogen at play, if I understand correctly, although the Roma is pumping out flowers like there's no tomorrow. The Sweet Chelsea has a very thick main stem.

Finally, regarding the temperature, before the problem cropped up, it had been hot but quite cloudy and rainy for a while. Now it's been hot and muggy for a few of days with some clouds. Today is full sun.

Thanks again.

[applestar]

OK. I’m sure they don’t look look like they re suffering from lack of nitrogen.

So I really can’t think of anything else for now.

Sounds like Neptune’s is advising the blooming formula, so maybe get it for when you resume feeding.

Overall, I think you’re doing a good job — well within “fine” mark.

[imafan26]

If you foliar feed, it should be done in the morning when the stomata are open and the stomata are mainly on the underside of the leaves. I agree with Applestar, your tomatoes look very good. The leaves are large and green and you don't have yellow leaves on the bottom of the plant, so there is no nitrogen problem. Romas are a determinate that gets between 3-4 ft tall. Since the tomatoes are probably 55-65 days old, it is the right time to flower. Back off on the nitrogen. Heat will matter on tomatoes. Roma and cherries are more heat resistant than other tomatoes, as long as the temperature does not go over 95 degrees for any length of time. Then blossom drop and fruit drop may happen.

Sweet chelsea is indeterminate so it will need a support and for me it can get 8-10 ft. Organically, expect a smaller plant.

Your plants are not showing nitrogen deficiencies, so there is no need at this time to keep boosting them. The indeterminate will need a little more nitrogen over time because it continues to grow throughout its' lifetime, while the determinate Roma will produce all of its' tomatoes at once and be done.

Compost contamination can occur even with good compost. It really depends on where the source materials came from. Composters do not test for contaminants. It is becoming a growing problem and it is not always the composter's fault. Contaminated straw, manures, grass clippings don't look any different. Persistent herbicides can be locked in organic matter for up to 2 years. Yellowing along the midrib is a classic sign of herbicide damage. Herbicide damage can also show up as leaf curling and fruit deformities. Usually you can test new compost by planting legumes. Beans are particularly sensitive to herbicide residues.

It would be best to start making your own compost for your garden. If you have the space, you will have lots of material for feedstock and you will know what went into your compost. Put only healthy plant residues in the compost especially if you are cold composting.

https://extension.msstate.edu/publicati ... e-tomatoes

[applestar]

Ha! I just came across this video by one of the Japanese Youtube market gardeners. He talks about what sounds a lot like your OP issues within the first 2 minutes of the video.

* He introduces the video by saying he is getting ready to prune leaves from these plants for the 2nd time in preparation for ripening the 3rd from bottom fruit truss

1. These tomatoes have more relatable appearance to your tomatoes. They are hybrids.
2. He said the HUGE leaf he just cut off are starting to show signs of yellowing due to being overlapped and not getting enough sunlight
3. He said the lowest leaves are starting to cup/curl upward not due to lack of water but because they are exhibiting senility. He said these are not needed anymore and can/should be removed.

[Finlike1143]

Hi guys,

Thanks a lot for your comments and suggestions; they're really, really appreciated. I'm a little relieved to hear that you think my plants are doing OK.

I'm going to give the fertilizer a pause for another week (2 weeks total) and take it from there. I've ordered the Neptune's Harvest Rose & Flowering fertilizer so will give that a try when I resume.

I tried watching that video but YouTube's auto-translated subtitles are terrible. When I read your post, I was worried about removing the upwards curling leaves because they make up the bottom third of my plant, but this guy's going to town! I'll see about removing more of them.

The yellowing does look similar but I'm hesitant to say that we have the same issue. My yellowing leaves are the top ones that are exposed to sunlight. Also, there doesn't seem to be downward curling of the edges of his yellowing leaves. Interesting, nonetheless. He has a TON of leaves.

I would like to start making my own compost rather than having the city haul it away, especially since I plan on expanding my garden next year. I have a few too many ongoing projects at the moment, but thanks for the reminder!

Do you think it's OK to continue foliar feeding even if there are flowers now?

[imafan26]

I don't feed when tomatoes are flowering. Most plants can do only one thing at a time. Grow or bloom. You confuse them if you try to make them do both. It is also a waste of money, since once they bloom, determinates won't do that much more growing. Once they bloom, they don't need bloom fertilizer either. What was in their starter fertilizer should be enough for maintenance if it was placed at the right time.

For indeterminates, they won't flower as profusely, because they are not trying to set all their fruit at one time to ripen all at the same time. Indeterminates will keep growing, setting a few fruit, grow some more and flower until they die. I just watch what my plant is doing and I only feed them in an active growth phase.